Rules Comment: Sleep and Coup de Grace

So when I got slept and Coup’d at the Fire Circle, there was some difference of opinion amongst the players about whether that actually works. I assume it’s supposed to work, or NPCs wouldn’t be sent out to do it. But looking at the rules, they say Coup only works on “unconscious or helpless” and the definition of “unconscious” explicitly says it’s not the same as the sleep effect.

You probably want to clarify that.

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I mean, if you’re asleep you’re pretty helpless, right?

From a balance perspective, coup de gras seems intended to be an instantaneous “critical 1 2 3” call on someone helpless (like someone bound or unconscious). It is not meant to be an instant Critical call otherwise. By allowing it to be paired with the fairly common and cheap Sleep call that specifically ends when someone starts a Critical 1 2 3 call, feels like it should not be able to be paired with coup de gras, and attempting such should wake the target up.

IMO, If a skill is intended to be able to be used in a way that brings you straight from upright and alert easily and quickly to a critical state, just cut to the chase and make the call itself critical?

Not my place to make a ruling and I will abide by an official ruling, just opinion.

There’s a bunch of other things you can do to “helpless” people that I don’t think you can do to sleeping people (like feeding them a potion or checking their surgery bag). The “immediately” in the Coup is doing a lot of work if that’s how you read the RAW.

I do think it’s supposed to work on sleeping people. But I think that it should be clarified.

Note that CdG is a pretty advanced ability; the only place I know of it existing is in Duelist, so minimum eight lessons’ worth of work to get there or twelve if you don’t start true skirmisher, and then you need a source of sleep as well. So even if that combo CAN do this, it takes a lot of work to be able to try.

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Anesthetic Cream is a non-true Surgeon skill, and Tranq Dart is a non-true Engineer skill, so anyone who does unlock CdG can pretty immediately start doing this combo if it’s allowed.

CdG already turns Subdue into a slightly slower Assassinate, which is strong but feels more balanced since Subdue is both harder to get and harder to land than Sleep.

I’m going to close the topic for now, since speculation is likely to lead to confusion. Staff will re-open when we have a formal clarification.